Race Results and Series Standings

Season Standings:

The guys at SimRacingHD.com generously gave me access and use of their stat system. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to make it appear on my forum, but if you click on the link below, the season results are listed. If you click on a driver's name, you can view their performance broken down per track, top 5s, top 10s, etc. for this series.

http://racepointsmanager.com/pm3/?league=1076&o=standings&s=8


I'll continue to post the race standings below in it's current format, but the overall standings will be updated via this link.

Team Standings:

ISRC Motorsports 1211
Early Apex Racing 1210
Cacodemon Race Works 1038
MOB Racing 1030
DMZ Racing 969
Backmarker Devils Racing 760
Tandem Puma Racing 194
SRHD Racing 146
NME Racing 0



Motegi
Race 1



Race 2




Silverstone



Laguna Seca

1st Jersey 36.18.396 14 Q points
2nd TDR 36.24.657
3rd Racer09 36.30.544
4th Unbated 36.30.671
5th Davey 36.32.286
6th Blknotch 36.36.307
7th debanker 36.36.701
8th GLR 36.43.608
9th Flight 36.47.405
10th Mugg 37.02.116
11th Outcast 37.08.073
12th dime 37.18.004
13th Zeight 37.34.739
14th Major 37.35.288
15th prtrt 39.02.509

Jay - I owe you a point for fastest lap, I added 2 when I should have added 3, I'll get that updated next week.

I will say with 370 points being the point standing for winning a race. 3 points for being fastest in a room and being shoved to the back of a pack is not much of a bonus over going slow and leading a group of guys that are all with in Tenths of each other.
With that many points I would say 50 points would look alittle nicer but i still say I wouldn't of minded being in front of Black, Jersy, and Yan to name a few rather then be behind them trying to wait for them to mess up a turn. This should really be looked into.
I know I am not one for sand bagging as you can see by my lap times. But you can best be sure if 3 points is all i'm getting. I might be going off track a few times in qualifying.

all good points, let me look at the points and see if I can figure something out. I initially wanted to avoid moving a driver ahead of another with fastest lap points. It doesn't seem fair for someone to race well, but be passed in points because of a another driver's fast lap bonus points.

It's a new qualifying format I'm trying out so there are a few details to work out. It's too bad the game doesn't give us more options - I don't think reverse true skill ranking is fair, but I do like a reverse grid because it essentially forces passing, defensive driving lines, etc.

Well ok maybe 50 points is alittle to much, but for me being in the back of the pack, you have to make it worth while to a person to push for that fast lap to want to start in the back of the pack.
Don't get me wrong, I hate seeing a fast guy in front and hes just up front running hot lap times because he has clean air in front of him.
Working for a pass and trying to get off the line fast to make up 2 spots or more off of a hole shot is all for me. I love that stuff.
But its not cool when someone who can run just as fast as someone that set a fast lap just so happens to run bad that qualifying session and is sitting pretty in that number 1 spot. I mean you can ask Yan, I usually run a half a second to a whole second slower in qualifying. I am just one of those guys who gets nervous in situations like that and I run bad. I just think because of all the mishaps we had trying to get the room going I was calmed down by then and ran good.
I know your job isn't going to be easy on this one Majorpile but i am sure you will come up with something to keep it fair.

Thanks for listening bro. If theres anything I can do to help. Just ask.

i agree with jay.

I also agree with Jay. I like creating a race that forces faster guys to create passing opportunities. However, in a Spec series, with guys who will be in the fast room, there isn't much passing, as very few mistakes are made. There must be more incentive to qualify well. Jay started 8th, finished 3rd, but he and 3 others ended up with the same amount of lobby points (4), and had to start the 2nd race last again. With the bonus being less than 2% of points available for each race, I can't think of a good reason to push during qualifying. 10-15 points may be a bit closer to what is needed in my opinion.

On a side note, I believe team points are wrong for Team ISRC. My math has ISRC BLKNOTCH, ISRC Jerseyboy, and ISRC Bigfoot at 735 points, not 877.

Team ISRC dropped bigfoot and added Unbated Cactus just before the season began, I haven't edited the sing-up post yet. Sorry about that, but the points are correct for their given line-up.

Thanks guys for the feedback on the bonus points, it's always easier to decide something when there are others behind it.


Let me know what you all think about a 14 point bonus for fastest lap. One point less than the difference between 1st and second place. So in the best case scenario, if you get the fastest lap and you finish in second place in the race, you'll be one point behind the driver who won. If you finish lower than that, you could move up quite a few points positions with the bonus.

I think this might be a good compromise between the importance of winning and providing incentive to qualify well. The winner of the race, which I think is the most important part of a series, will still get more points than a driver who qualifies first and finishes second.

14 points works for me.

Works for me also 14 points is great.

Hey, its a start
Its all trial and error at this points.

Jay1000x wrote:Hey, its a start
Its all trial and error at this points.

that's punny.

Indeed it is.

Season standings have been updated given the new fast lap point bonus (14 points) and I've also started using the stat system provided by simracinghd.com

Hey Major, I was the fastest qualifyer in my lobby last week, but I did not get the bonus points.

sorry for the confusion, the fastest lap bonus points go to the fastest overall qualifier for the entire series.

So all the drivers in the series are competing against each other for the fastest lap regardless of what room they're in.

Race results posted for Silverstone - Season and Team standings will be updated by Thursday.

I just had a thought concerning the points for the 2 @ 10 laps events. Could we think about adding the 2 results together and coming up with one overall race time, and awarding points based on that, instead of awarding full points to both races? By my logic, it isn't fair that a "sprint" type 10 lap race (approx. 20 minutes) is given equal weight points-wise to a "full" 25 or 50 lap race (approx. 45 or 50 minutes). Adding the two "sprint" race times together and awarding points based on overall time would even this out. And yes, I know it would have been better if I'd thought of this before the series started. I can't help that my ideas aren't timed well.

Aside from that, my other issue with the 2 @ 10 lap events is that they exacerbate the problems we have with qualifying and setting the starting grid. The fast qualifiers get stuck at the back of the pack, and then get a much shorter than usual time to try to move up a few positions, which isn't easy given how close the racing has been so far. Even if they manage to move halfway (or all the way) up the field, they start the next race near the back (or middle) and face the same disadvantages again. Meanwhile, the slow qualifiers, who generally aren't much slower than the fast qualifiers, get to start out front. If they can hang on to this advantage (or even if they're passed by a couple drivers), they're rewarded by starting race two at the front again (or close to it). The "full" races minimize these problems since there's much more time to move up the field, and if you can't move up, well, at least you're not stuck starting in the rear for a second race. Again, I think adding the two "sprint" results helps make this a little more fair. See the end of paragraph one regarding my thoughts on the timing of this idea.

Thoughts?

TL;DR version:
2 @ 10 lap event results should be added together to get an overall race time which points would be based on. They cause more problems and aren't as fair as full races. I'm whining about it, and my timing sucks.

Thoughts?

This is really all a virtue of the very limited grid order options we have with Forza. There are really so few options I don't know what we could do to make it fair for everyone. Trueskill rank doesn't seem to really capture how well or poorly a driver will do, so the only other option is to use a qualifying session. But as we all know, it's extremely cumbersome to even set that up.

I personally don't like the idea of starting the fastest guy in the front, and I love the idea of an inverted grid. I like passing and even being passed - driving defensivly, setting up over/under moves etc. Unless there is out right mutiny, I will probably set up all of my series with some type of inverted grid.

But you do have some great points, it's very difficult to work out grid order, the number and lenght of races, incorporating different tracks, how long peolpe want want to race (45minutes etc.). So it's really a matter of coming up with a system to start with and then working out the bugs.

As for the shorter, 10 lap races, for me, it's just a matter of variety - just like some RL racing series, the number of laps, track length, track time, etc vary and it plays on drivers' strengths and weaknesses.

I know last night I started losing focus around lap 30 or so and started running .7 to 1 second slower on my lap times (I think I need to find some black market Adderall....anybody?). and it seems like others are able to run consistently fast the whole way through.

Fortunately, there is only one other 2 x 10 race scheduled at the end of the season.

We'll have to reconsider everything you mentioned for the next series, but I think the change is too significant to incorporate now.

I hear ya on the starting grid deal. Hopefully they add some more options in Forza 3, or another game (Race Pro?) comes along that has better options. I do like the 2 @ 10 lap events as well, even given their somewhat unfair (IMO) nature. I'm not saying we should do away with them by any means. Like you said, they add some variety, and so far have been the closest races we've had since I joined the FSR site, and that's been awhile...

My main problem is that events that make up a third of the series schedule (and probably less than a third of the total series race time) count for half the series points. That just doesn't seem right to me. I understand if it's too big of a change to implement now that we've already run 2 events in the series, though. Like I said before, bad timing on my part. Maybe next series!

Although, if everyone (and I mean everyone) were to agree on it, I don't see an issue with changing it for this series. Just a(nother) thought...

EDIT: I'm really swamped at work today...can't you tell?

I wouldn't mind seeing a point change for shorter races in the following series. I personally like having two 10 lap races. It keeps things on edge from beginning to end. Hopefully Forza3 will have many more options for setting up a race. I would love to have the ability to set a number of laps or have a timed race.

me too, 17 lap race? A 35 minute timed race? it would be great.

i can get ya that adirol. just let me know were to ship it.

Team Standings updated

Laguna Results updated